70: No Furries in Space

Grumpy Old Geeks. A weekly talk show hosted by Brian and Jason. Discussing the finer points of what went wrong on the internet and who's to blame. Let's get started. What up, Brian?

Hey, Jason. How's it going? I'm older now. Yes, you are. Happy birthday to you. It was such a great day. I went to go see Guardians of the Galaxy. I keep hearing that this is so good, and I almost feel like I have to turn in my geek card for not having gone seeing it yet. Yeah, you have to. I was just like, everybody on Twitter was saying, it is the best Marvel movie yet made. And I'm like, no, come on, man. Iron Man. Iron Man was great. Thor 2, not so much. They were totally right. This movie rocks.

Do you think it's the Matrix effect? Is it because nobody went in really knowing what to expect because nobody knows these characters at all? And then low expectations equals good movie? No. Absolutely not. This is a solid, well-put-together movie with great story, great character development, funny as can be, great action. It had everything in it.

I mean, there was not a bit in the movie. It's two hours and two minutes, and I was not bored for, like, any time at all. I loved it. I'm going back again on Tuesday to see it. Wow. All right. I'm going to have to get out there and go see it. Unfortunately, because I'm in a cohabitational situation with a female, I might have to make a trade for some chick flick first, too.

The interesting thing is we saw it in 2D because I'm not a big 3D fan. I can't stand 3D. I'll tell you what, though. There's one big battle scene where I'm just tempted to go back for 3D just for that because it was so cool. Right. And I kind of want to see it in 3D. The effects in this movie are so damn good. It's just – it's off the hook.

Right. Having said I'm not a fan of 3D, that is certainly true, and I probably will not go see this in 3D either. I have to say, though, that Sandra Bullock movie – Yeah, I didn't see it in Gravity. I didn't see it in 3D. Gravity. I couldn't even imagine not seeing it in 3D. That was absolutely stunning.

But the entire point of the movie was the cinematography. Yeah, because as somebody who's seen it in 2D, it was a terrible movie in 2D. In 3D, I'm sure it was amazing. It was stunning. If they do a re-release or anything like that, get your ass to a 3D theater and see it because it was unbelievable.

I remember walking out of the theater just feeling like I was there. It was unbelievable. Yeah, you're not the only one that said that, so I feel like I kind of missed out on that one. Yeah, you definitely did. I feel like our friends in Sweden let me down. Well, you know, those 3D TVs are all the rage these days.

Well, no, they're not. I'm sorry. They already went away because nobody wanted them. Dead, dead, dead. Yeah. Speaking of dead. My search for an iPhone case continues. I got that Lunatic SMK5-001 seismic touch suspension frame for iPhone 5, what, three months ago?

The rubber casing's already ripped around the power port. This was a completely useless piece of crap, waste of money. You had such a nerd boner for that thing, too. It was groovy, but it didn't last. It didn't last at all. And I'm not particularly rough on my phone, so I don't really – this is a bit shocking to me.

So, Lunatic, you blew it. I don't think I'm going to be trying any of your stuff anymore. It's just right around the power port. It started to stretch out, and the next thing I knew it, it ripped, and it's just useless. Oh, well, I still stick by my Graft Concepts Leverage i5 case for the iPhone 5.

I must say I did like that phone, but as I said at the time, I have an unfortunate aspect of having the whole BMW slash mini connection, whatever, with the phone that doesn't have a standard iPhone connection. So, I could never get it to fit.

So, I'd have to take it. No, get a Dremel. Just get a Dremel. I'm too lazy. Well, I don't have it anymore. I actually gave it to my roommate, and he's still rocking it, and it looks like it's brand new. I mean, and I beat the crap out of it. I'm still rocking the OlloClip case because I still use my OlloClip a lot, and I love that thing.

It's not the sexiest case. It's actually kind of ugly, but functionally, it's fantastic. And the interesting thing is I never – like when I go commando, as it were, with my phone, I'm way more careful. So, I never – I don't need a case, but sometimes it just – I like the option of just being absent-minded and throwing it around.

No, I'm much the same way, and I'm probably going to go caseless for quite a while, but it is an odd thing in that you just – as careful as you can be, some things are out of your control. You could be walking down the street – like the one time that my iPhone has gotten chipped, I was just walking down the street on the phone, and somebody ran into me, and the phone went flying.

So, there's not much you can do about that. Well, yeah, just when you're walking down the street, don't talk to your fucking friends. Put it in your pocket. So, you have given me crap for years about my affection for the betas of the iOS and the like.

Well, no, I'm not giving you crap for your affection for it, being a geek. I understand this impulse to want to try out all this cool new stuff. What I've given you crap for is the incessant bitching when things don't work. Come on, that's part of the fun. That's part of my charm. I bitch when things break.

That's it. We wouldn't have a show if I didn't bitch when things broke. Come on. This is a very good point. So, I read the release notes for iOS 8 beta 5, and I'm going through this. I'm like, Jesus Christ, does anything work? There's so many bugs. They're like, okay, this doesn't work if you do this.

This doesn't work if you do that. I mean, it's just this laundry list of crap that doesn't work. And they're like, yeah, we know about that. We'll get to it in beta 6. I'm just like, wow, yeah. Like, taking a picture was a big one in an old release, and it looks like it is again. So, I'm glad that I'm staying away, and I have not renewed my Apple developer account and don't have any plans to.

Yeah, I looked through this. You posted the notes in our show notes, and I took a quick look at it, and I just started chuckling to myself. So, a little follow-up on the Arduino scene. So, since it was my birthday, I took the advantage here and got somebody to buy me the Arduino starter kit for my birthday.

Okay. It's got, like, 15 different projects, a 170-page book and all that good stuff, and it gets here today. So, I'm super excited. I can't wait to hear about this because I want to know what you could possibly build and see if this will be a good waste of my time as well. Well, here's the deal. We always talk about, you know, the home of the future and home automation and all that crap.

And I'm thinking, well, hell, if I can just build it all myself, you know, have my own server room and don't have to worry about the cloud. And I've got this – I had this whole, like, vision when I bought this thing. I'm like, I can build my own automated home. So, you know, with all the sensors and all the crap, and it will probably cost, like, you know, 1,800 times more than it would if I just went and bought it off the shelf.

But it would be more fun and less hackable. So, we'll see. We'll see how the winter – if we have another winter like last winter and I can't go outside for six months, I'm super excited and I will have the craziest house on the planet. Bill Gates, you ain't got shit on me, I'm sure.

Of course, your version will involve a lot of duct tape. Well, hell, yeah. Life is not fun without duct tape. This is true. It's still one of my favorite Mythbusters episodes, the duct tape one. Absolutely fantastic. There are a couple of those now. Yeah. They're kind of running the duct tape thing into the ground.

But what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Comment of the Week. I'd like to thank all of our listeners. We've had a slew of five-star ratings and comments since we've started basically pandering towards you and demanding that you go do it.

It's much appreciated. Thank you very much. In fact, we had so many. What did we hit, Jason? I think we're at 91 ratings now and comments and all that good stuff. I did pander for my birthday, so I appreciate everybody. Yes, but we also hit, what, number six in tech podcasts now?

Oh, yes, yes. We knocked some Leo Laporte off. We knocked everybody off. We were up there with Adam Savage, speaking of Mythbusters and duct tape. We hit number six in tech news. Thank you, everybody. Yes, it's very exciting for us. Thank you very much. So let's just pick one of these. Kgirl73, who gave us a five-star iTunes rating and comment.

Please continue, people, because we love that. This is one of my all-time favorite podcasts. Brian and Jason cover all sorts of topics, from books to tech news and even more technical geekery that may be somewhat over my head, dot, dot, dot, but is promoted, well, should have been prompted, me to look up topics and learn a thing or two.

Thanks, guys. Anytime, Kgirl73. Indeed. Now, and I do want to do a shout-out to everybody who gave me – basically sent me DMs about my tweet asking for reviews and ratings and stuff. You got to push modes? Yes, I did.

I was not enjoying the silence. So, okay, I just mentioned we got like 91 ratings. Like close to 1,000 people listen to this show. So some of you are slacking. Get off your ass. Go click the button and give us some rating and please be nice. I mean, honestly, we'd prefer you give us money, which you can do at GrumpyOldGeeks.com, but at the very least, it costs you nothing.

Go give us a rating. Okay, that's enough pandering. Let's get back to the show. Okay. Hello, podcast fans. Adam Carolla here. I'm leading the fight against patent trolls who are threatening this medium. It's not about me. It's about the podcast you're listening to right now.

If I go down, this show could be next. Visit fundanything.com forward slash patent troll for more information on how you can keep podcasting alive. Thank you and mahalo.

Welcome honored guest. We finally got Jordan back. Jordan Harbinger, you joined us for a short segment a long time ago. And we finally got you back for your own full segment. So welcome to the show, Jordan Harbinger, who is also kind of my boss, I guess.

Kind of, but not like you actually listen to me, so it's all good. We just work together on stuff. Yeah. So I met you because of your podcast, actually, a long, long time ago, when you were like at episode like 10 or something. I can't remember. Well, we met in L.A. when I moved here because I was doing some lame-o, like, let's promote on meetup.com, which, by the way, doesn't work for anybody.

No. And I was meeting people, and you had this huge meetup for this blog that you had run that I think you later sold. And I remember that was the only thing, and not to demean our friendship by any stretch, but the only thing that came out of my, like, month-long work my ass off, promote everything via meetup was we had lunch because you had this huge meetup.

And then you were like, yeah, my meetup doesn't really do anything. And I was like, damn it. And then you were like, oh, I've already heard of your show. And then I was like, oh, this guy's pretty cool. And then we became friends. But other than that, that whole meetup thing was a giant waste of time. Yeah, I was running blogging.la and met blogs back then, which I did eventually sell.

Thank God. What a time suck. But, yeah, so our friendship came out of that. So that was a good thing because I had just moved back to L.A. myself. So it was cool to meet new people who were moving to L.A. So your show, you have a podcast that is a juggernaut.

It has been around for seven years. So, dude, stick-to-itiveness, I guess, works. But, like, what were you, number 24 of all podcasts yesterday? Let's see where I am right now. Can we do that in real time? Because I check my iTunes rank probably every five minutes.

But it's been at least 15 minutes since I have. I think you can get, like, an if this, then that kind of recipe for that. So it will ping you if you go up and down, you know. That would be amazing. I know what you're doing next week. Oh, shit. Wait, are we talking about how the Internet dopamine and your brain are working together to screw your potential article already?

Oh, my God, we totally are. We totally are. Actually, this is how the Internet dopamine and my ego are massively out of control and end up costing a lot of money because I hire a programmer like Jason to make things that show me when I'm more or less popular. Because clout doesn't update often, though.

So, yeah, I'm number 24 right now, which is awesome. And I'm right behind some stupid CBS Sports Fantasy Football Today podcast. CBS Cares. CBS Cares, yeah. But I'm also right behind Adam Carolla in front of Tim Ferriss and Dave Ramsey, which makes me pretty happy.

You stud. Jeez. Nice. Studding it up. So I don't want to get too inside baseball with the podcast stuff, but your show has, like I said, you've been doing it for seven years, which is, A, impressive that you didn't quit at this point. Because most people usually quit after, like, ten episodes.

That's, like, the cutoff for most podcasts. And, you know, it's an inspiration to see that you're still doing so well and moving up in the ranks. And, yeah, I definitely want to get to the dopamine article in a second. But, like, what's the secret, dude? What's the secret? To continually creating shows?

Yeah. I mean, I think the key for me was that it – okay, it's weird because there were multiple keys. In the beginning, I loved it because I was, like, this is, like, me being a talk show host. And it was 2006. And it was, like, it didn't matter if anyone listened.

And we loved talking about the topics that we were talking about, which is, like, meeting and attracting girls and improving yourself. So we put that up on the internet and we decided to promote it. And then, like, after a while, we started getting a ton of email about how good it was. So that was kind of validating. And then that kept us going.

And then after I started working on Wall Street, it was, like, my only outlet of any kind for anything. So I kept that going then. And then after that phase, it was, like, this is advertising a side income stream. So that was good. And then after that point, it was, like, I was kind of depressed, down and out, like, overworked, hating everything, except for my podcast.

So that kept going. And then now, looking at, like, the whatever number of phase we're on now, it's kind of like, wow, this is really working. It's helping a ton of people. And it's making the art of charm a viable, you know, lucrative business. So now it's, like, my pet, my hobby.

I really love it. And now it's to the point where, you know, I don't have to do the editing. I don't have to find guests because I get pitched, like, three per day. And, you know, it's a lot of the hard, annoying crap that you have to deal with when you're starting a show is now faded away. But in the beginning, it wasn't that tough because I really loved it.

And I wasn't doing it because I wanted to make money. And I wasn't doing it because I wanted some sort of validation. And that was really good because I think now, and again, not to be too inside baseball, but I think now with, like, the current trendiness of podcasting as, like, a internet marketing BS thing, I think people go, oh, I'm going to start leveraging this and getting sponsors.

And then when 10 episodes roll by and their new and noteworthy feature expires and they're number 4,000 in iTunes and nobody cares about them at all, they're like, oh, hey, will you sponsor me? And some places, like, who are you? No, and I'm not even going to answer this email. And then if they do get a sponsor, they're like, I'll give you 20 bucks an episode.

And they're like, but I pay my editor $50 an episode. And then it's like this big time suck. And then they're like, I want my money back for, you know, whatever product they bought that told them they were going to get rich podcasting. Ah, yes, the get rich podcasting. We kind of – we've alluded to this on our last episode with people like old John Lee Dumas who's selling these, like, super expensive products for shit that you can find out while Googling.

Yeah, and it's not even just like – there's so many people doing it and it's like you can turn this into a business. But here's the thing. The people doing this, some of them have good intentions where it's like you can make a little bit of a side hustle doing this or you can have access to entrepreneurs doing this.

But the problem is – and I think it's a very – I think it's very self-selecting and it's a little bit blind of current – like for me, people go, why don't you teach a podcasting course? You're beating all of these other guys in the ranks, your show's done better and I'm thinking because I don't know how to replicate it and truth be told, neither do those guys.

Neither do – and that's the key. They don't know either. We see that across, I mean, everything almost now. It's certainly in music entry or the music business as well or we're starting to see this with YouTube and movies as well. It's the barrier to entry to creation is now so low, anybody can do it, but that doesn't mean they're good or that there's some secret to it.

You actually have to have good content. You have to be good at what you do and you can't teach that. No, you can't. It's practice and that's another thing is people are like, hey, Jordan, heard your interviews, really good interview technique. Where did you learn? And I was like, dude, I've been doing crap interviews for like six years and so now they're good.

You know what I mean? And it's – I did episode 250 in April and after that episode I started to get email that was like, wow, you know, I finally came – I saw you on the front page of iTunes and I decided to pop back in. I haven't listened for a few years.

This is great. I'm subscribing again. And it got me thinking and I realized I just now am starting to think I kind of am getting the hang of this whole podcasting thing. Whereas people who've got four episodes in are like, I don't need to do this show prep thing because I'm a pro now.

And I'm thinking you'll be a pro in five years if you keep going every single week. And you do your prep because you've got to be good at it. Yeah, it's like you don't see athletes that are like, I don't need to stretch or do my run today because I'm already a pro athlete.

I mean that's ridiculous. It's like going to the gym and going, I'm in great shape. All right, I'm going to cancel my membership now because I'm in good shape. I mean you have to keep doing it but the amateurs that are doing this don't realize that.

And the other thing is not to get too like hoity-toity about it but there is an artistic element to podcasting which is timing, comedic timing that I know nothing about other than like what my gut says to do, ways to ask questions, conscious listening, things like that that I had to learn just the hard way are things that you can't just tell somebody who's maybe even really – even if you are great at conversation in real life, you're not going to necessarily be a good broadcaster.

And that's the – if there's a secret to good podcasting, it's what the product sellers don't tell you which is even if you come in knowing all of the knowledge and you launch perfectly all your ducks in a row, you might have an okay podcast but it's still going to be a piece of crap.

It might just be a really well-promoted piece of crap. Well, and then there's the whole aspect of – again, going back to the music industry because that's my background. You could be really, really good and it's still luck of the draw as to whether or not you can make it. Yeah. You could have the best album in the world, put it out there and nobody will buy it.

End of story and you go away. I mean it's still – there's so much luck involved. It really is. I think there's a large element of people who are right now going, oh, you're saying that because you just wish that you had your best-selling album out or you're bitter. But I think you're right because here's the thing.

I started my podcast in 2006 and really kicked it up in like 2007 and further along. That was a long-ass time ago. There were like 800 podcasts in the iTunes store and even that was a lot of competition. And I think now there's like 275,000. Oh, it's ridiculous.

Yeah. So like – and not only that, you're not going up against me and somebody else who might have a small radio show. You're going up against somebody who's on television, has a blog with 400,000 people on their email list, is a regular contributor to CNN and has been for 10 years.

I mean look at guys like Dave Ramsey who's got a really popular show in the top 50. You're not going to come out with a money advice podcast that has better money advice and then suddenly trump Dave Ramsey even if you know what you're talking about 10 times more than he does because he just snaps his fingers in a PR team 10 deep, goes to town, getting him on every news outlet and getting him 10,000 new subscribers per day for the next month and a half, and you're annihilated.

You're never going to catch up to Adam Carolla. You're not going to create a TED Talks that – Trump's TED Talks. But that's – I mean you're not only competing against every other single podcast. You're competing against every single other thing that takes people's attention because we can all get anything on any of the boxes that we have now.

You're going up against TV shows. You're going up against videos. You're going up against a YouTube channel. You're going up against everything now. It's all a grab for people's attention, and that's really hard to get. Yes, and last but not least, every niche is saturated as hell right now because you're looking at these guys who are trying to get rich podcasting.

And the one thing that always just gets me – it makes me almost giggle in a sad clown way inside is that they're all interviewing entrepreneurs. And it's like, hello, you're all copying the guy who sold this class, whoever it is. There's even multiple people selling classes on how to interview entrepreneurs.

There's multiple people doing this who are selling this class, and then everyone who's taking it, almost everyone is doing the exact same thing. And then they're like, no, mine's different because I'm interviewing health entrepreneurs. And I'm like, great. So now there's going to be 25 more of those, and by the way, there's already 50 of those in the iTunes store.

So like what do you think you're going – and it's sad because you don't want to be Mr. Grouchy on those things and be like – when people email you and be like, you're going to fail. Just give up now because I don't believe that. I mean everybody can come in and make a change, but the thing is they're not coming in it because they're like, I'm really passionate about this and I need an outlet for it, like a writer who just has to write or somebody that just wants to dance.

They're doing it because they're like, I'm going to quit my job in a year. And it's like, no, you're not. You're going to invest $5,000 into this and then cry and then move on to like making money on Amazon with Kindle books or whatever the trend is next year or the year after, whenever the podcast thing sort of blows over.

And it will. Yeah. Yeah. Here's what I talked about last week. It's these things where people go and like buy e-books and they buy knowledge instead of working for it from a deep-seated need to do something. It never works. Like these people who do like buy podcast shows or how to become a podcaster type of things, if you wanted to be a podcaster, you would have just done it instead of going to buy an e-book on how to get rich doing it.

And those people do fade away and they're going to have their high old PR40s next to the treadmill in the garage saying, let's put this in the garage. And it's sad because I'm going to be able to do this and it's sad because you see tons of distractionary stuff on these discussion forums. And I used to chime in, but then I used to chime in, but then I just got like haterated from people who were like, you're being negative.

And I'm like, okay, because I would tell people, I'm like, you don't need acoustic panels, a high LPR 40, you know, a nice mic arm and a windscreen and a cooler and Megami gold tipped cables because no one's going to listen to your show for at least a couple of years.

And that's if you make it that far, which you might not, like 99% of you are not going to. Well, it's just, it's funny that everybody seems to have forgotten that this is at, at its heart, this is the entertainment industry. Let's look at statistics for, for the entertainment industry. At the end of the day, 99% of people that enter fail.

That's it. That's the way it works. Most musicians will never make a living doing music. Most writers will not make a living writing. Most actors will not make a living acting. Why is this any different? This is where we've just made it one big radio station that anybody can get on. Most people will fail. Jason and I came into this going, boy, it'd be great if we made a little bit of money doing it.

Now we just do it because we love doing it. And if that has to be the way that you approach this, if you're going to get into this, you have to just want to do it regardless of money. You're right. This is public access television, except no one works at the station. We're, we're all Wayne's worlding it. Yeah. Except, yeah.

Except now there's 300,000 of us and unlimited bandwidth and much more limited attention spans due to the competition from other outlets. And so, so it's funny because people go, well, that's easy for you to say, you've got a big show now. And like, you can do this and you can talk about that.

And I'm like, well, that's the point. Like, I'm not some old guard television guy on NBC telling you, you can't do a show. I'm somebody who knows that this industry really, really well and telling you that the odds are against you. And I'm not saying don't start if you want to, but I am saying you are not going to make money doing this.

And if I have to shake you to get that to go through your head, then fine. But otherwise, fine. Be that guy who's like, you know what it reminds me of? Multi-level marketing. You guys know anything about that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like those people who go, I mean, I get letters about this because I did a show about, against multi-level marketing that was like, an expert that was like, here's the numbers about why this doesn't work.

And even Herbalife, which is public and has stock disclosures and stuff like that, is like, the only 10% of people, they had to disclose this, 10% of people who sign up make money. And of that 10%, less than, and I'm making this part up, but like 0.1%, and it might even be smaller, made more money than they spent on Herbalife.

And I'm like, holy crap. So everybody takes a loss, and 0.1%, oh, sorry, yeah, everybody, 90% take a loss, and 0.1% make, like, more than minimum wage or something after you add in all the hours.

And I'm thinking, wow. And then you talk to these MLM guys, and they're like, oh, that's just because people don't want to work for it. If you believe it, you can, and you just hear this Kool-Aid coming out of their mouth. But that is such a load of crap. I mean, that's the exact model of the music industry, or at least it used to be. It was even the bands that made it, i.e. got signed, 90% of them never made any money, got dropped after two or three records.

It was the 1% of bands that got out there and became mainstream and made a shit ton of money that financed the entire industry. That's the way it works. Of course. It's actually like the startup industry now, too. Yeah. They bank on 1% of their guys being the next Facebook, and the rest of them just go into debt.

Yeah, and that's okay with venture capitalists and things like that. And it's the same thing with podcasting. People are like, well, you know, I don't care if it doesn't make me a living. I just want a little side hustle. And I'm like, the odds of you making a red effing cent on this is so low.

Because unless you're selling a product or service, and that's the other thing, is they go, oh, I'm going to write an e-book about it. And I'm like, dude, people might buy it to support the show, but people are going to spend like 20 bucks, you know, once in the lifetime of your show. And if you have, even if you have 100 listeners who buy that, which is a lot of people to buy a product from a really small show, that's what?

That's 2G. And that could be over a year. And that's going to pay for your equipment and not your time. And then you're just doing the show. So people were doing it to make money. It's just like such, it's such a weird hustle. And they're learning it from people who are like, I've got this many monthly downloads.

And it's like, yeah, but you release something every five minutes and it's downloaded by a bunch of people. It doesn't mean they're listening to it. I mean, there's just so much manipulation of these statistics to get people to buy things. And it's sad. It sucks because people are investing their hope in it, let alone, you know, their money and their time.

Oh, this is an uplifting show. Yeah. Okay. And this actually does kind of roll into what we wanted to talk about with the How the Internet, Dopamine, and Brain article. This was posted on Medium by a guy named Anthony Richardson. Do your Medium side, Jason.

Medium. Okay. There we go. And it's a great article about how your brain works versus creativity and different types of creators. And this is a really good point because there are two types of creators. There's a replication creator and a skilled creator.

Replication creators just basically listen to something somebody else says or reads a couple articles and then regurgitates that back out, which is 99% of the Internet right now. It's your BuzzFeed and it's your Boing Boing. It's all that shit. And then skilled creators are the ones who actually put in the time and make something new.

We call that the stuff that doesn't make money. Right. I'm kidding. Yeah, because all the replication creators are stealing it from you and they're making the ad money. But it's about how creation and creativity, like build your dopamine up over time instead of going for the quick hit.

This is like the old cookie study where the kids get the cookies and the guy leaves the room and all that shit. But this article just fascinates me because coming from the side of being a skilled creator when I used to create products and sell products and that kind of thing, it makes total sense.

And the fact that to be – long-term happiness comes from being creative instead of just having your little one-hit wonders. Posting on Facebook and getting a like will not make you happy over time. So I want to hear your guys' take on this article because it was really well-written, I thought, and fascinating.

Well, I mean I think I've talked about this at length on our own podcast here where we've both been talking about how there's so much of an enjoyment. Having been programmers all of our adult lives basically and just making the stuff that was ephemeral because it would just go away after a couple of years and it just existed in a virtual form.

You and I have discovered the joy of dealing with things that are physical, that are real, and you get the surge from that because we're actually making something that exists in the real world that is not going away. That's my outtake on that is just that we've discovered that there are just better things to be doing with our time that feel better to us as a human being.

Well, no. I mean just even on the software side, when I created blogrolling.com, that was an original creation. I spent a couple of years on it. I had paid customers and I ended up selling it. But that joy from it still lasts to this day.

People still remember me for that. So it's not like just a one-hit wonder. And even with podcasts nowadays, like we regurgitate the news sometimes, but we still also come up with new concepts and new content, which is the fun part of the show. We try and – we figure out what's wrong on the internet and then we try and figure out how to fix it.

And that is the skilled creation part coming from the side where you take a bunch of ideas, mash them together, and come up with something new. And a lot of people aren't doing that part now. And it's going to – it leads to this kind of almost sadness I think with people just posting links, getting their likes and moving on or their retweets.

And, you know, they're just – they're on the hamster wheel. Yeah, I think you're probably right. And, I mean, I experienced that too. I stopped looking at how many people like a Facebook post or something like that. But with Twitter, it's easier because my Twitter engagement is so much smaller. I'm like, oh, someone retweeted that.

That's cool. And then I realized like, oh, I don't really care. It's kind of a waste of time. But it is tough because, you know, I'm thinking, well, easy for me to say because I can look at the iTunes charts, which I do every five minutes. And that's not a productive activity. I'm just like, ooh, I'm still in the top 25. Yay, pat on back and then go on with my day.

But I just, you know, constantly am doing that. And so luckily I liked this article because I was like, ooh, I'm a content creator. I feel good about myself. And that's another thing that's like the same principle. I can rest on my laurels. This article is feeding into our own egos, right?

100%. It is 100% designed to write at us to make us feel good about ourselves. Yeah, no kidding. So it was my favorite article of the week, though, I got to say. It's brilliant, though, because it's like, oh, I'm going to share this because it makes me look cool. Wait a minute.

No, damn you, Anthony. Yeah, by even talking about this, we put ourselves in the other side of the aisle. But, you know, on the plus side, I mean, this is a well-written article with interesting thoughts and all of that. I've always, you know, just kind of thought of the trend of like 10, 15 years ago when everybody had their own WordPress blog and they would do updates there.

And they would take the time to write, you know, a couple paragraphs at the very least, sometimes, you know, gigantic screeds and how that's been whittled down by Twitter and Facebook and social media to basically a link to something from BuzzFeed with a sentence. I mean, that's how far everybody's brain has been taken down, at least writers on the Internet.

Well, and then the rise of the listicle. Here's 10 reasons why you should start a podcast and get rich and famous and you still won't get a nice seat at the restaurant you're going to go to tonight. So, OK, getting off of this. Jordan, you had a fantastic talk that we actually featured on the show a while ago when you were at DerbyCon.

The hacker conference was a down in Kentucky or something where you don't really think about, you know, let's all let's get all the hackers to go to Kentucky. But it was a piece on how you social engineered people on LinkedIn to basically divulge top secret secrets.

You talk about that for a second. Sure. Yeah. So that was a while ago. And it was it was basically I I've I was looking at going to conferences and speaking more in the security niche because I'm like, wow, this would be a really good niche to get into. And it's interesting. And like you hang out with all these cool hackers and those people are really nice generally or they're like socially maladjusted D bags.

But like usually they're really, really nice. And so I was like, oh, this would be cool kind of side niche to get into. And, you know, there's all these these like really cool down to earth people making tons of money and doing kind of badass stuff. So I was like, I want to be involved in that. So I asked my friend Chris Hadnagy, who's in charge of socialengineer.org, what I should do.

And he's like, well, you kind of need to put yourself on the map with some kind of stunt. And I thought about this and I didn't know about something called Robin Sage, which happened a long time ago until after I was done with this. But I go, OK, cool. This is going to be really hard because, you know, social engineering is hard and I'm going to have to put in a lot of time and effort and all this stuff.

And so I basically decided, all right, I'm going to get info that's not classified, but is, quote unquote, confidential from people that have top secret security clearances so that it's not like illegal, illegal. But it's like, oh, this guy totally could have stepped over the line if he wanted to just to illustrate the security flaws.

So totally white hat, legit. I had a lawyer from EFF, Electronic Frontiers Foundation, helping me out, like telling me what I can and cannot do with this stunt to because I don't want to get in trouble. Because obviously the government and big companies are not usually known for being like, oh, thank you for screwing this up and embarrassing us.

We need to fix that before some malicious person gets in there. They're usually they're much more likely to go. We're going to like put you in jail now or something so that we don't look like we don't know what we're doing. Right. So I made sure to cover my bases there and I went ahead and again, with like Chris's help and Dave and all those getting paying all those people from social engineer podcast, I made sure to to do this in an appropriate way.

So I went on LinkedIn and I was like, all right, first things first, I'm going to create a group for people that is for people with top secret level security clearances because I need a honeypot. Otherwise, I'm never going to be able to find these people because I only know like one.

And I had the way I got the idea was because I have tons of Art of Charm clients who come to boot camps that are like SEAL team six guys or like military intelligence or special forces and even other countries intelligence or special forces will come through our live training program because they want those skill sets.

And so what I'll do, what I did is I overheard tons of these conversations and I started doing it in person, sort of like getting information out of them that they probably weren't supposed to say, but we're kind of like, yeah, cool. We're friends. It's all good. Right. And so I was like, can I do this over the Internet? So I started this group on LinkedIn for top secret level people and I promptly deleted it because I realized that there already was a group for people that had top secret level security clearances.

And it had like 10,000 members or 8,000, I think at the time. And I was like, wait a minute, how is this real? So I joined or I applied to join. I thought there's, you know, this isn't going to work. They're not going to accept you. There's no way. Yeah. Why would they? Why would they accept me? But then they were like, you need to prove you're you're in.

And I was like, OK, this is the part where it might get dicey because I might have to forge some documents or something. I was like, cool. How do I prove that? And they're like, well, you just did. You just told me via email that you were in, you know, that you had that. So that's good. And I was like, so by sending you an email from theartofcharm.com, because I didn't even mask the address at the time.

I was like, screw it. Who cares? So sending that email from that address, I'm good. And he's like, yeah, it's all good. And, you know, it's for. And the thing is, the reason is because he's a job recruiter, the guy that runs the board. And so he's just looking to place people. So the more, the merrier.

It's in his interest to have as many people in there as possible. Right. Like he could vet me and find out that I have that and then spend time doing that. Or he could just allow me into the group. And then when people are looking for jobs, if I come up in search results, he can do the work then. And that's a lot less work than vetting 10,000 people.

Right. So so he just lets me in. And now there's 8000 people there with their LinkedIn profiles. Now they might not put people go, oh, well, LinkedIn doesn't put top secret clearance on their resume. One, some people do. And yeah, you can't necessarily search by name, but you can if you pay LinkedIn, you can search for certain fields and certain qualifications.

And a lot of people put their security clearances in there. You just have to pay for that searchability. And it's cheap. So that's how LinkedIn makes money, by the way, in case people didn't know. There's ads, but there's also, I think, but there's also mostly it's paid search for job purposes. And headhunters and the like pay them and firms to post jobs.

Exactly. It's like higher. It's you know, it's like monster dot com for people who aren't looking for jobs because they're already gainfully employed. So you can poach people, which are usually higher quality. So it's actually better than, you know, want ads. And so I thought that was really interesting. And one of the things that that was really funny was people were like, well, I don't post that on my resume.

I'm like, you joined a group called top secret. I know you have this now, unless you're just like me, but I assume I'm the exception to the rule. Right. So there's all these people that are like, I'm keeping this on the low, but I'm in a group with them and I can see the membership. So that obviously didn't work for for squat for privacy purposes for them.

And then I just started mining data mining. I started, you know, you can spoof phone numbers. So I would use something like Jigsaw and I'd call a company and be like, hi, can I speak with Jason DeFillipo, please? Yeah. Who's calling? Oh, my name is so-and-so. I'm calling from such-and-such.

It doesn't even matter. I could even fake that I'm calling from a sister office in another country and just spoof their internal phone system. And I got those numbers by having those people call me back by pulling the old, hi, yeah, I can't hear you. I can't hear you. It's really, can you call me back at this number? And they're like, yeah, yeah, sure.

Because it's a business. They're going to call you back. It's not a consumer-facing thing. So they assume that someone's calling them. It's important or they know them or something. So they're calling me back. Boom, caller ID. Then I spoof that number, called the sister office, you know, seven states over and ask for so-and-so. And he's going to take my call because it looks like it came from their internal phone system.

Even some older digital systems just kind of go on caller ID or it'll come up with an error on the ID, but they'll answer the phone because now there's no number attached to it. So they're like, oh, that's weird. You know, they're going to answer their phone. Most people answer their office phone regardless of who's calling anyway.

And you can just say that you work at the other office and they're not going to be like, why should I believe you? They're going to be like, oh, okay, hey, what's up, man? I mean, it's a default, right? Who else calls their work phone saying that they work at the same company? It's a weird bluff. So, you know, I mined that way. I got email addresses by having them go to websites and I got IPs and stuff so I could figure out where they were.

I used that email. I offered them jobs. That's how I got the email. And, yeah, posing as a head owner. So then I got their email, ran it through Maltigo, which, like, found them on Yelp and found which coffee shops they go to and all that stuff. And so I had everything I needed to find out where I knew where I knew already where they worked.

I knew some of the stuff they were working on, not to great detail because that would be illegal. But, you know, I knew some of the projects they were working on by asking the right questions. And then I had my assistant, who's a female, pose as, like, this aspiring engineer all via text and Internet communication.

Because the way that then if they were like, oh, are you specializing in BCE transactional security protocols? She doesn't have to be like, yeah, she can be like, Google, what's this? And then we're doing research and she's like, yeah, but you know what? I'm not much of a I'm not much of an encryption gal.

So I'm thinking more of this type of thing. And they're like, oh, yeah, good, smart move. The crypto geeks are always in the office late. And you're just like, wow, if that was in real time, I would have been busted instantaneously. But since it was over time, you know, and I could do tons of research, I could be sort of like vague enough, but researched enough to come across as authentic.

And then, of course, guys are like, yeah, why don't we have coffee at my favorite coffee shop? Not knowing that they also talked to me as a headhunter, as a man, as a headhunter, and they were like, I can't tell you the office I work in because, you know, it's a classified area project.

I can tell you I'm in the Nevada region or like the Midwest or something like that, and I can fly to you, you know. And I'm like, okay, that's stupid because now I know where your favorite coffee shop is. So since I know where that is, I know that it's probably close to your office and or your home and don't live too far from work.

So let's do a little search where Northrop Grumman facilities are located within 50 miles of that. And that's your office, obviously, right? And so it was really easy. And the fact is, a lot of those guys couldn't wait to meet up.

They wanted to talk on the phone. They were helpful. They were nice people. Some of them were probably a little pervy. But, like, if I was freaking Chinese intelligence, I did. And by the way, guys, I did all of this in five hours. Yeah, yeah, the initial sort of stunt or con was five hours long.

And then I was getting follow-up emails from these guys for weeks after. And when I added up all the time, even, like, because, you know, you don't get a response right away. When I added up all the time, it took me more time to create the PowerPoint slides for this presentation than in the talk that I gave at DEF CON and at Derby CON.

It took me more time to do that presentation than it did to do the whole CON because it was so quick and so easy. And the responses were super forthcoming because those people don't get a lot of inquiries because they're working on stuff that's classified. And because junior-level engineers in college don't usually reach out to somebody in that position with, like, aggressively good networking skills like we teach at The Art of Charm, they don't usually reach out and ask for, like, help in this area.

So these guys are like, wow, this hot chick's going to, like, move to my area and work with me. Yeah. Ego stroke, yeah. Yeah, and they're like, I'm definitely going to help that out, you know, out with that. Oh, man, that is such an awesome story. Thank you. Yeah, my pleasure. I love social engineering.

Like, when you get down to the nitty-gritty of it, it's really just basic stuff. You know, you just kind of go on people's weaknesses and people will tell you pretty much most of the things that you want to know if you ask them correctly. Exactly. Yeah. That's true. Unless you're a jaded bastard like I am.

Right. But most people aren't. Most people are desperate to get any kind of ego stroke. And if you know the right buttons to push, boom, you're in. Bob's your uncle. So, now, knowing this stuff and, you know, being on the engineer side of it, what would you tell people to kind of protect themselves?

You know, let's give some people some actual info on, like, how to protect yourself. If you have something that somebody wants, how do you protect yourself online? You know, it's interesting because I'm not necessarily an expert in this area, but I will say that one of the most obvious things that I could see, aside from a healthy dose of paranoia, if you need it, is a lot of guys are using their work email for personal stuff.

And I know that that's, like, super tempting and much easier, but that's what made it really easy for me to search for people. But here's the rub. I don't even know if it would help to use the other one because here's how I got around that, right? People who were smart and were using personal email, I would write to them or call them and say, hi, what's your personal email?

I don't want to send recruiting, job recruiting information to your work email because I assume a top secret level person is monitored, you know, their email is monitored. And they were like, great idea. I'm Steve at, you know, gmail.com. And I'm thinking, okay, cool, thanks. And that's, of course, what they use for Yelp and Facebook and everything else.

So that was easily sort of sidetracked. Yeah, and I would say, honestly, you know, the best thing you can do and the best thing that these guys weren't doing, they were using their real names everywhere, even when they were trying to be tricky. Like, they might be, like, Steve A on Facebook or, like, just Steve, I'm being private about this on Facebook.

And it's, like, whatever Steve with your face not in your picture, you just gave me your email. And that's how people use to Facebook search. And, by the way, your cell phone number is in your profile. It's not public, but if I search for it, it'll find it, you know? Just stuff like that that people don't realize is all connected.

And at the end of the day, programs like Maltigo are designed to connect those dots. And I remember when I was learning how to use Maltigo, the head of security for a big company, and I won't mention them because they've already had security gaffes this year. And I mean big companies that you know of and have done business with, if you know what I'm saying.

We looked for him on there because he's like, ah, I'm the head of security for this. We found him and his whole security team. Their locations, their email addresses in Maltigo during the classroom demo. So it wasn't like we let this thing run overnight. You know what I mean? It was, like, instant.

Oh, there's so-and-so head of security for this major operation that's multinational that had all these credit cards. It's stolen from them, you know, in 2014. And so it was, or maybe it was 2013, I don't know. But it was, like, a big, big mess.

And it's really, really easy to use. So for me, I would say, you know, if I had it to do all over again, don't use any real info on the internet. And I mean, go back and erase everything. And here's the thing, like, it's hard to go back in time on the internet.

But if you have to change your name, figure out how to make it not public, there's ways to do that depending on which state you do it. And then only use, you know, this defunct dead ID and change it legally everywhere else, then go for it.

And if you have to use fake name generator to do it, because I thought of this when I was young, fortunately. And it was because I didn't want my parents to know what I was doing on the internet, not because I was afraid of identity theft. So I had this, like, different identity cooked up for use on the web. And it's funny now because my defense is different because now I'm, you know, I'm Jordan Harbinger.

I'm highly public. So now my defense is putting out information that's so public, but with, like, red, what do you call it? Like, there's a word for this. You guys probably know it. Where you put fake details in there that if that detail shows up anywhere else, it's like the only way they got it was from online.

They do not know me. Oh, yeah, you're salting. Salting, yeah. So, like, if someone's like, yeah, dude, we met at this and I know that your dog's name was this. I'm like, ah, you are busted because that is my fake dog's name. You know, like, if you really knew me growing up, you would know that that is not the case or whatever.

And there's multiple ones of those. Yeah, and also never, ever, ever use your real birth date. Yeah, that's – and that's funny because it's like, oh, it's easy to remember. And it's like, hey, by the way, that's what credit card companies need, that and your social security number and, like, maybe your name.

And it's not hard to get those things. And your birthday is everywhere. I mean, we live in a world where a bunch of companies use your social security number as your ID number for them. I remember freaking out with a health care provider I will not mention that refused to change my ID number for my social security.

I'm like, I can't do this. I'm not going to use this number and send it in mail and send it over and have it on your website and all that shit. It's insane. It's crazy. Yeah, it's craziness. It is nuts.

And when I was in college, I remember a lot – like, right when I got my ID card, I had them destroy it because my old college ID number was like – before they changed it and erased it all, was like our social security numbers with, like, an extra number added on to the end.

So was mine. So was mine at college. I remember that too. And I was like, are you kidding me? Yeah, I remember being like, you guys know this is, like, the worst idea ever. And they were like, now, now, you're a college kid. You don't know shit. And I was like, okay, cool. See you guys later. I'm requesting a formal change of this.

And they were like, okay, that's weird. And I was like, all right, see you guys in three years when you have to recall all of these cards because of the massive, obvious threat of identity theft. And, of course, something like 100,000 emails were stolen over the years.

And then it was like, the problem is they stole the ID numbers that went with these. And I'm like, so you have an email, which leads to a name and a directory. And that, of course, has the birthdays of everybody in it and the age, which is easy to sort of reverse search the birthdays. And, oh, by the way, the ID number is your social security number with, like, the letter five or the number five added on the end.

Well, thanks a lot. So now somebody's got 100,000 valid IDs of kids that go to an expensive school. You're an idiot. Whoever thought of this is a freaking moron. And, like, and it sucks because nobody will listen to these security concerns. And that's what social engineering is.

It's like you can't patch stupidity. So you just look for it, you know? Yeah. I love the Internet some days. So thanks, man, for coming on and explaining some of this stuff. Hopefully it will scare some people into – basically the rule of thumb should be if you're on the Internet, lie a lot.

Yeah, lie a lot. Yeah. Use different names. Lie a lot or on the opposite side of the spectrum. If you're not doing anything too crazy, just be as transparent as humanly possible. Right. Because kind of – you've got to go one way or the other, right? Right, because I'm so transparent, but at the end of the day – and I want people to be able to, like, find me, but just not maybe apply for, like, credit cards for me.

Yeah, exactly. But, like, people can find me and they can do a lot of that. But the thing is, also, since I'm in this position, credit card companies and places like that, they know – like, they – unfortunately for me, there's, like, an extra layer. And it's funny because they're like, oh, we've enrolled you in our free fraud protection extra special.

Normally we charge for this plan. And I'm like, well, good, because somebody who wants to find out my name, where I live, where I am right now, and, like, all of those things, I can't hide that anymore. Because somebody might be literally listening to me on a live program or watching me on TV and knows what city I'm in and knows how old I am and knows all these weird details about my life because of my show.

So, like, yes, call my actual cell phone and call my office line to double verify because even – because if somebody – even if somebody, like, intercepts my phone or something, they won't intercept my assistant and me at the same time or whatever. You know what I mean?

And there's, like, all these weird things that they do that I'm probably not supposed to mention on a show, so I won't. But, like, there's – it's cool little protocols like that that kind of, like, make sure that, oh, okay, this is going to be a huge pain in the butt even though it looks like an easy target. So you've moved into, like, four-factor authentication now that you're famous.

Right. I have to spit into a little cup every time I log into my Facebook and it double-checks with my DNA. Awesome. Only a matter of time. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Because, you know, you can't do, you know, fingerprint matching anymore because that's easily spoofed. Eyeballs, I can cut your eyeball out.

I've seen Demolition Man. Right. What are you going to do now? Well, now if you want to hack it, you have to bite off a chunk of my elbow and spit it into the same DNA cup and then it will verify. Awesome, man. Well, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate it. I want to respect your time and let you get back to being cool and doing the shit that you do and sending me things that I have to do later today.

Ah, nice. Thanks, guys. This was fun. Good talking to you, man. Take it easy. Take care. Take care. In the news. Communications watchdog firm Ofcom, which I have never heard of before, spent a lot of money on a big old study and basically came out with six-year-olds understand digital technology better than adults.

I do not disagree with this whatsoever. In fact, actually, just yesterday, my sister is down visiting and brought my nephew, who is a little bit over one. I think we're at 16 months now, 14 months, whatever that is. Cute little kid, but just, you know, she's got a tablet and the kid knows how to run it, knows how to open the apps, not even speaking yet, knows how to open up the apps, do whatever, find the apps that he really enjoys, music apps and a couple things like that, can play with them.

In fact, the only aspect of digital technology that I would say that my nephew doesn't understand better than an adult, and actually I'm not even sure this is true because I've seen most adults do this sort of stuff, is how fragile they are, and he likes to slam his sippy cup into it. So other than that, I totally agree with the study.

I mean, I've seen it more and more through various cousins that have had kids, friends that have had kids. Some of them are, you know, at this age that they're talking about in this study. These kids just intuitively understand tech way better than 99% of adults do.

We need to get out of this business immediately. Oh, yeah. There's not going to be any business once these kids hit the workforce. No. These kids are going to understand user experience, UI, UX, programming so much better than we ever did. And, you know, we got a pretty good grasp on it because we started early. Yeah. But it's second nature.

Yeah. We're breeding super programmers right now, you know. I mean, I never thought this would happen, but we are going to be exactly like our parents compared to these kids. We're not going to, huh, what? I clicked the button. I know. Oh, man. I'm going to become a carpenter, I think, because none of these kids are going to have physical skills.

That is true. That is very true. That's – I've certainly – well, maybe this Arduino thing is the way to go. We'll actually be really building and soldering things, which none of these kids will ever do. I don't know. I think we're going to have Sean Bonner's wife, Tara, on at some point. And she has – She's teaching them all how to do it, I know.

She's teaching her son Arduino and shit like that. So, you know, they're building a scary race of uber nerds out there. And I think going back to the basics, you know, Jesus, I'm going to have to grow an Amish beard and sell puppy farms and shit like that. Yeah.

Well, everybody should go take a look at this article. It's actually really kind of interesting. We just kind of glossed over it, but a lot of it is talking about how basically all the traditional medias that you and I grew up with, print radio, or print radio, print media. Print radio.

You know, the old teletype. This is how we started our podcast years ago. Tee-tee-tee-tee-tee-tee. Fuck you. Today on the Western Front, that was some bombing. Yeah, live radio, live TV, print-based media, movies, which is why we're seeing attendance going down except for things like Guardian of the Galaxy.

All that stuff is something kids don't even care about. They're all multitasking, which means if they're sitting and watching something off their DVR, they are also on their phone at the same time, usually looking at YouTube clips and then sharing them with friends. It's a completely different generation that is just way out from what we know and understand.

And there are some concerns about it, but obviously because attention spans and all that stuff we're starting to see go way, way, way down. But who knows? It's a really interesting study, and who knows what these kids are going to end up like. I fear for the future. I fear for the future as well. I fear for the future because I'm not going to have a fucking job.

Yeah, none of us are, which is kind of an interesting thing. I think we'll be talking about that a lot more in upcoming episodes because I have some definite thoughts on that. As far as what are the ways that these people, these kids are not talking to each other, let's talk about the Facebook Messenger app that has come out and caused a brouhaha.

Do we gotta, really? No, we'll just do it really quickly because it's big news. I went ahead and, as promised in last week's episode, I installed it because I knew you wouldn't. It's fine, but there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to have this broken out as a separate app from Facebook as far as the end user goes.

And there's no reason whatsoever to ever install it unless you do nothing but send and receive Facebook messages all day, and it's really important for you to know immediately when you get one. It's stupid. It still shows up in your Facebook feed or on your Facebook app if you use that, except if you install the app, then when you try to look at your message, it ports you over to the app, which takes an extra couple seconds.

The app itself doesn't have anything particularly special about it that makes it worthwhile to install. And then, of course, there's the inevitable backlash that happened all over Facebook in particular where everybody's posting these articles talking about how draconian and evil the Facebook Messenger app is because it asks for all these permissions.

And we have a couple links to some of the bullshit articles that were written about that, and then the link to the true article that was written about it from the Washington Post, which I'll just read the title because it's pretty self-explanatory. Yes, the Facebook Messenger app requests creepy and invasive permissions, but so does every other app you have installed on your phone.

Okay. Well, that's all I got. Yeah. And you were completely correct. I did not install it, and I never will because fuck you, Facebook and everybody that tries to message me on Facebook. It's called email. Get me on email.

I actually have decided to create – I created a new folder on my iPhone called the Facebook Graveyard in which I keep all the apps that they keep trying to push on us that nobody ever uses. So I've got Sling in there. I've got the Messenger app. I've got Pages. They're just all on my phone. I wish you could do custom icons for the custom folders because I'd make it a little like a coffin or something.

A little tombstone. Tombstone. Well, it's nice now that you can do pages inside of folders because you used to only be like limited to 9 or 12. Yeah, exactly. Now you can put as much crap in there as you want. Until your phone fills up and you never use any of it and you spend all of your bandwidth downloading the updates.

Well, there you go. It serves you right. Exactly. Security. Ha! So the Onion got on the security bandwagon this week with one of the greatest headlines known to man. Latest online security breach forces mom to change Post-it.

Like all of the best Onion articles, they aren't actually just humor. That is true. Yes, that's why it's so great. I finally last year convinced my mom to actually move the Post-it note from sitting on the monitor to at least hidden in a folder somewhere on the desk, which means that she forgets where it is every now and then.

But, yeah, that's what my mom does. All the passwords are on a Post-it note. You know, stuck to the monitor. Every old person I know, it's exactly the same. So I just loved it. The picture's great, too. So go check it out.

It'll be in the show notes at grumpyoldgeeks.com slash 70. Woo-hoo. Now back to more security news. There's an article on PC World called, Is Your Drop Cam Live Feed Being Watched by Someone Else? Now, I've said it in the past.

If the headline is a question, the answer is no. It's almost always no. Not always no, but almost always no. 99, it's five nines no. Yes. So, yes, the answer is no. The hack on this requires somebody to have physical access to the camera, fuck with the firmware, and do all sorts of stuff to it.

And if they have physical access to your camera, you've got other problems. I mean, if they have physical access, then who gives a shit? Well, you know, it's friend-on-friend crime at that point. This is somebody that has to be able to get into your house, and you probably trust enough to leave sitting around for a while while he messes about with your camera.

And if you're a business and you have it, like, up on a shelf or something, you're going to see the video of him coming towards you because that all has motion recognition, and it turns on when there's motion. They're going to see this dude coming up or chick and looking at the camera and fucking with it. You know, it's a silly one, and shame on you, PC world.

Shame on you. Well, you know, I've been bitching about this for a while. It's even mainstream, what we call trusted media, is starting to fall prey to this bullshit way of getting click-throughs because they need the clicks. So bullshit articles start to appear. Well, I also recommend watching last week's This Week or whatever the John Oliver one.

That was a great one talking about sponsored media and crap like that. It was a very good one. It's interesting that they're not really going heavily viral anymore. It's not like the quality on his rants has decreased. It's just it seems to – you know, he hit his saturation point, and now people are taking a break. Which sucks because I really want his show to do well.

I think the show is doing fine. It's just a case of his rants. You know, everybody has done their news – every online magazine has done their reports on it so far, so now they're taking a break from it. Well, and this one really kind of hit home because the people that are posting his stuff saw this and are just like, oh, maybe we shouldn't give him that much press anymore.

Hey, he's talking about us. Yeah, that's us. And I love the comment about the BuzzFeed guy. He's like, yeah, you just kind of want to punch him in the face. So anyway, back to security here. So cybersecurity researcher Ruben Santamarta says he's figured out how to hack satellite communications equipment on passenger jets through the Wi-Fi.

Oops. So basically what he's saying is this is a theory. He hasn't tested it on a real plane. Thank God. He's doing it in controlled environments. But he says that he can basically get through to the avionics using the in-flight entertainment system and the onboard Wi-Fi.

Well, this is what happens when everything is interconnected. I mean if you're putting Wi-Fi on a plane, why is it connected to any other system whatsoever? Well, I mean in the end you have the in-flight entertainment system, which runs on Linux because like the first week I was on Virgin America, I could crash it.

I crashed it. I've got screen caps of the damn thing rebooting on my – I think I had a sidekick back then when I was taking screen caps of it. So I mean it's – they're just computers, people. They're just computers. And when you connect them together, then the Cylons reign supreme. It all comes down to Battlestar Galactica, separate systems.

Yep. And this is a not-so-separate system. Hackers have amassed a vast collection of stolen data including 1.2 billion – with a B – unique username and password pairs by comprising 420,000 websites using SQL injection.

Yep. It's a group in Russia, basically 20-somethings who apparently – they're in their own city. They know each other and they have been basically just – Hacking away. Hacking away. So this firm, Hold Security, found it and they monitored these guys for a couple months before, I guess, posting what they were doing.

But yeah, I mean that's a lot of usernames and passwords. So if you are using the same password, they probably got you. But here's the thing. 1.2 billion, that's a lot of data. And what the fuck are they going to do with it? Exactly. What are they going to do with it? What I thought was the most interesting part of this article was the fact that they talked about how they were really indiscriminate in the sites that they targeted.

They didn't go after anything. They didn't go after big sites. They didn't go after only like commerce sites or anything. They just went for anything that they could get into under the assumption, which is true, that most people use the same username and password on any site. So if they could grab it off some site that doesn't matter, say like a Domino's pizza or something like that, they could grab it from anyone.

And then they would have the username and password to something important like a banking site. So all the more reason to use what we always suggest, 1Password people. Yep, especially since iOS 8 is coming out and it's going to be fantastic. You never have to remember a password again.

Unless the power goes out, then you're screwed. But if the power is out, then you can't get online anyway. So who cares? Thanks to our friends at Sophos, Naked Security, for this article. I love those guys, man. I check them every day and they've always got good stuff.

So I highly recommend it. And speaking of, I've got another article from them. And this actually I first heard from Bruce Schneier. He was talking about this like a couple of weeks ago saying that it looks like we've got another Snowden person out there who is leaking stuff to the press because there is data still coming out that's fresh.

There was a database leaked a couple of weeks ago that basically Snowden couldn't get because he was already – He was long gone. He's in Russia hanging out, having whatever they eat in Russia. Vodka. He's having vodka. Although he's fairly well-spoken for a vodka addict.

So I think he might be – That's called functioning alcoholic. Something you and I know a thing or two about. Well, hey, man. I'm off the sauce for 30 days. So I'm two days sober now. That's the thing about turning 43.

I'm like, oh, maybe it's time to grow up. Shit. Damn it. I don't want to have a heart attack. Yeah. Oh, OK. Anyway, so yeah, there's another leaker out there or series of leakers. So – Good. Times are going to get interesting. Yes, they are. Because the thing is, after Snowden came out, the morale in the intelligence services just went to shit.

Everybody is like, oh my god, we really are horrible people. Yeah. And so now other people are coming out of the woodwork and giving us cool data on things that people are doing like the terrorist watch list, which is the newest leak.

Now, Google has talked a big game for a while about we're pissed off that the NSA is snooping on us and backdooring our data. Yeah. So they have done something very, very interesting, which is – this is a carrot and stick issue here.

It's like, OK, what is going to get people to start using HTTPS and secure their communications? Oh, wait. Guess what we have? We have the biggest search index and search website on the planet. If you use HTTPS on your website now, you get ranked higher in Google.

Genius. No, it's smart. Absolutely genius. I actually – well, I brought this up on the show I think three or four months ago when they were first talking about it. I'm glad that they're doing it. That's great. This is a fantastic move. I don't think it will do much to stop the NSA because I don't think that they can't break it, but this is good.

Well, yeah. Remember on one of the slides, there was a little arrow. It's like, here's where we decode and reencode SSL communications. Here's where we insert ourselves into your secure communication. Yeah, but I think that had something to do with Heartbleed and some of the insecurities through SSL back then.

So we're slowly getting together and locking this stuff down. I mean granted, SSL on a general website slows it down a little bit. So there is a cost – you do get a cost hit and a speed hit because the tokens have to go back and forth quite a bit. It's not just a one-time handshake.

Every transaction, you have the keys going back and forth a little bit more, which is why a lot of people didn't want to do SSL. That's why Facebook didn't want to do it for a long time because the cost in just hardware and speed was a factor. But even they finally came around and said, OK, we got to – which screwed up a lot of Facebook games because when we used to do that stuff, we were like, why do we want SSL in a game?

They're like, oh, wait, because you have to now because we have the – we have both sides of it and people can check the always use SSL in their preferences. So if you have a game and they go to the game, it's got to be secured. So the guys who are doing certificate services right now are making bank.

Yeah, they're really happy about that and it's one of those things where I've been trying to tell my clients that we should – even as insignificant as their sites are in the grand scheme of things, I'm like, we really should do this. But we haven't yet. Maybe this will get them to do it. And it's cheap now. I mean I use Rapid SSL, which is like $17 or something for a certificate.

It used to be expensive. Oh, yeah. And if you still want to do a wild card certificate so you can have like subdomains under your domain like ad nauseum, it's still like a little bit pricier, but it's under $100 now. The price has come down so much that it's a non-issue now.

It's cheaper than an email account to get SSL on your site for a year. So it's something that should be done. They're saying though that it's a marker for SEO that there's a bunch of markers like speed of your site and usability and all that crap. So it's a very trivial marker now, but they can say in the future that they might bump it up some.

So if you do secure your site, you might get better ranking in Google and everybody is going to jump on that. So it's interesting I think and I'm good on Google for that, honestly. Yay, Google. Woo. One of the few times we'll say that.

We'll never say it again. Never say no. Media Candy. To fill the gaping hole left behind by the World Cup, I've actually been paying a lot of attention to Dodgers baseball recently. What? Well, I used to be into the Dodgers when I was a kid.

I played baseball. It seemed natural enough. And it's an excuse to walk down to the bar and have a pop or two every now and then when the game is on. Oh, yeah, you can't do that. Thanks, Time Warner Cable. Anyways, but a tip of the hat to the Dodgers who just bested the Angels in our freeway series here in L.A., three out of four games.

And while I was doing that, I was actually at a Dodger game two weeks ago and they do a movie night at Dodger Stadium where after the game they let you onto the field and they play a movie on the big screens and they were going to play the natural. And I was like, God, I haven't seen that movie in years. I remember it being really good. And I went home and I was not tired yet.

So I tried to bring it up on Netflix. And, of course, like anything on Netflix, it's not there. But one thing that did come up as a suggestion and is there is Baseball, a film by Ken Burns. It's actually a documentary. It's exceedingly large. It's broken down to innings, nine innings, and then they did a tenth.

All of those are two-hour episodes. And it is fascinating and absolutely stunningly enjoyable. And while it is obviously about baseball, it basically is about, you know, the United States and our history since the beginning. Weaves in a lot of social commentary, a lot of what is going on in the world at the time.

I have not been able to stop watching it and it's so interesting and so much stuff I had no idea about. And I just actually finished the third inning, which is almost entirely about Babe Ruth, and that was just so much fun. That guy was a character. I can't recommend this enough. Even if you just have a passing interest in baseball, if you're interested in the history of the United States, seen through the prism of a game, you cannot beat this.

Now, it's interesting that you mentioned that you went and saw the Dodgers play because I remember texting you when I was out at a bar with some wrestlers from my day job, Resistance Pro. And I texted you saying, how does it feel to get beaten by the worst team in baseball?

Because the Cubs spanked the Dodgers, which is saying something. Anyway. Again, they won two out of those three. No, they won one out of those three. Well, hey, yeah, yeah. Keep your revisionist history to yourself.

They're doing pretty well. They're leading the league right now. So this film by Ken Burns, my dad told me about this years ago and he bought it. We've got it on VHS at his place. It's under the TV. He loves it, said it's the best Ken Burns series besides the Civil War.

Yeah. The Civil War, he said, just beats everything. So it's on my list, actually, to watch because it is more of a history show than anything. Yeah, and it was done in, I think, 94 or something like that. So it feels a little dated.

It's letterboxed on your widescreen TV. But it is beyond fascinating. I cannot recommend it enough. I'm totally addicted to it right now. Yeah, so you're the second person to tell me that it's awesome. So I'll have to schedule 18 hours sometime to watch it.

Yeah, pretty much. It's long, but I haven't gotten bored with it. It's my kind of end of the night. That's why I have no books for media candy this week. Instead of reading, I've actually been popping this on watching an hour or so before I go to bed every night. And speaking of actually more than 18 hours, what I've done this week, and the reason I don't have any books, is I went back to the Hardcore History Archives.

Dan Carlin takes his older shows and puts them into a paid archive. And I spent like almost 60 bucks, I think, and bought everything. Nice. And I've been listening to that. His old shows were shorter. They were like an hour. And then he finally picked up and got like the epic shows.

And the old shows had – he mentioned this on Tim Ferriss' podcast. They used to do a soundtrack for every episode. So you couldn't really hear it if you were listening on speakers, but if you had headphones, you could hear it. It adds so much to the show. It was really well done and I kind of miss it now.

But it took them like twice as long to put out an episode and now they're at three months to put out an episode. So I'm like, you know what? Skip the soundtrack. Just get the fucking episode out the door. But they're great. They're fantastic. Money well spent. Time well spent. I think I got 30 episodes plus a bunch of their extras.

So they'll do like a four-hour episode like Thor's Angels, which was four and a half hours for a podcast episode. And then they'll do like a paid like $1.99 extras episode that you can go by and just hear the stuff that was cut and like extra commentary. Right. Fantastic.

And I got to say my favorite episode of Hardcore History still to this day is episode 42. It's called Logical Insanity. It's about the Blitz. Oh, I love that one. And the atomic bomb and the fire bombings and all that stuff. And it has a lot of morality questions in it that make you really think like, man, these guys had – they had a lot on their plate, you know?

Yeah. And I love that episode. That's the first one I ever listened to, which got me completely hooked on Hardcore History. If you have not subscribed to Dan Carlin's free Hardcore History podcast, do so immediately. These are just absolutely amazing studies of history. Oh, yeah.

And his new one, he's doing World War I, and there's so much. I mean he's on – episode four is getting ready to come out, and these are like three-hour episodes, and it's just the history of World War I. And it's amazing. There's so much stuff I didn't know. I love his show so much.

That's why – and go back and listen to Tim Ferriss' interview with him if you haven't heard that because Dan's just a cool guy. Hey, he listens to the Dead Kennedys. He can't be that bad. That's true. That is very true. And in Media Candy, this link was passed off to me by a couple of friends of the show because they know my interest in music and science in general.

It's from dailyhealthpost.com, which I know nothing about this website. It seems to be a bit of a link trolly blog, but this was interesting. According to scientists, this is the most relaxing tune ever recorded, and there was – it's not a big study.

I just thought it was interesting, and interestingly enough, it was also only conducted on women. A study was conducted on 40 women who were connected to sensors and given puzzles and things like that and had a bunch of sensors on them to record levels of stress and things like that. And then they played them a bunch of music and things like that at the same time.

And they came to the conclusion that this song by Marconi Union called Waitless, which is basically eight minutes of ambient techno, is the most relaxing song of all time ever recorded and does a lot for your brain. And now I listen to it. It's nice and enjoyable and relaxing, but I think any ambient techno, might I suggest, some of Among Us' stuff will do the trick, as well as Brian Eno's Music for Airports, all that sort of stuff.

I mean, this is just simple mathematical progressions, very beautiful, very slow, very relaxing. It's usually done at around 90 BPM to 120 BPM, 120 BPM being about the human heart rate at a normal basis. So if you slow that down a little bit, it'll bring your heart rate down as you get in sync with the music.

There's a lot of scientific reasons why this stuff works. Okay. So, yeah, it's a statistically insignificant sample rate. Oh, yeah, totally. And the other interesting thing is they did not play them every tune ever recorded. Well, that would also be impossible. Exactly. So, yes, from a scientific standpoint, this is utter bullshit.

But from a practical standpoint, I listened to it, and it chilled me the hell out. I liked it. I really liked it. It totally chilled me out, too, as well. And I did this in college. I was double majoring in psychology and double major psychology in music.

And when it came time for me to do one of my own studies, what I did was I played – I got people together, and I had them basically do brain tasks and things of that nature. And I forced them to either listen to Skinny Puppy or Brian Eno, and people who listened to Brian Eno did better than people who listened to Skinny Puppy.

Okay. I'm not going to say anything else there. I like both bands. I'm just saying. I know. It reminded me a lot of an app that we talked about before called Paziz. Yeah. So it really did – like the background ambient noise in Paziz was almost identical to the tune.

So check out those two apps. If you're into this kind of thing and not – if you're a new listener and haven't heard about our Paziz jizz fest, the iPhone apps, Paziz Sleep and Paziz Energizer, they're my favorite apps.

I still use the Energizer probably three times a week in conjunction with Moodify to just chill and get – take a little 20-minute nap here or just perk up. But yeah, if you're stressed out, check out this video and maybe go buy the album.

It was really good. It totally chilled me out. I was stressed and I'm just like, oh, God. Thank God. Let's try this. And when I was done, I'm just like, yeah, man. That's cool. Yeah. And there was actually a compilation CD that came out in the late 90s that was a collection of a bunch of ambient techno stuff because that was actually quite popular at the time including some of Aphex Twin's kind of ambient stuff.

And it was – I basically for almost 15 years, I've listened to that compilation religiously anytime I need to chill out. So I'm going to take a look for that and see if it's still commercially available anywhere. And if so, I'll get the link in the show notes. And here's another one that I'm just going to throw out there that really kind of chills me out.

Mia Jovovich, the hottie from one of my favorite movies, The Fifth Element and many other places. She's Ukrainian. Yeah. She did an album a long time ago and everybody is like, what? You did an album? It's called The Divine Comedy. It is one of the best albums that I've listened to for over 20 years and that is in my chill out collection.

You and I will have to agree to disagree on that one. You don't like that album? I remember it. Yeah. No. Not a fan, but I mean, it's not bad. It's just maybe when it came out, I was kind of angry at the time and I didn't want any of that stuff. Go back and have a listen. All right. Go back.

Yeah. Go try it again. Our Moron of the Week is LinkedIn. But wait, you say, how could it be dumber than it originally is? It's LinkedIn. It's stupid. Nobody uses it. Well, they are dumber because their stated mission is to create economic opportunity for every professional.

Unfortunately, the U.S. Department of Labor has determined that the company isn't doing the same for some of its own employees. They are basically forking over over $6 million in unpaid wages and damages to current and former employees in California, Illinois, Nebraska, and New York. Good job.

Morons. So what were they doing? How did they not pay people their overtime? Well. They just said, okay, no overtime for you? No overtime for you. So LinkedIn employees were then busily updating their resumes on LinkedIn. Actually, they know better because they work there.

They didn't bother. Yeah, because nobody uses LinkedIn. Okay. Moron.

The Web's not dead. I may have lost my geek card for not seeing Guardians of the Galaxy yet, but while waiting for clients to respond to emails or do anything intelligent whatsoever, I did end up surf around the web and found a fan fiction-produced Star Trek film, or at least a 21-minute short, called Star Trek Axanar, I believe.

Unfortunately, this was Kickstarted, and we all know how I feel about that. Yeah, before you go any further, now it's fan fiction, so are there like furries having space sex in it? No. When I think fan fiction, that's what I think. Well, let me get to that. That is later when I did more research into fan fiction productions.

There was a lot of really crappy ones that were kind of that way. This one is basically kind of well after Next Generation, or actually a little bit before Next Generation. I can't remember to place it exactly, but they didn't go like original series. It wasn't like old-school Star Trek.

High production value, a lot of it obviously CGI, but really well done. Real actors, a bunch of the people, actually at least two of the alumni from Battlestar Galactica are playing major characters, and then you've got a couple people that played bit parts on various Star Trek series.

It was really enjoyable. It was so well done. It was almost done in the form of a documentary, in that they were going back and talking about this event that happened in the Federation's history. It was really great. I've got to say, I hope they end up making the whole movie out of this.

I don't know what the licensing and how that's going to work with the CBS, which owns Star Trek and all that sort of stuff, but I would love to see this movie. Okay. I haven't watched it yet because it's 21 minutes and it's fan fiction. This one's good, dude. Watch it. Okay, I'll check it out. It looks like it's got a good cast.

But yeah, the CBS thing and the fact that CBS owns Star Trek now instead of Paramount, they sold it off, gives me pause to give them any money because until they secure the rights, what the hell is going to happen? Because there was a Kickstarter a while ago that was like a Starship Enterprise or something, USB key, and they got the funding for it and then they had to give the money back because they didn't get the rights for it.

Until they secure the rights, I'm not giving them a penny, but I'll go watch their – they spent 75 grand to make the 21-minute preview, so I'll check it out. Yeah, go watch the preview. It was really, really good. It gave me a bit of hope that there might be a future for Star Trek that isn't really lame because these people actually really care about it and did a great job with it.

Having said that, after I watched the 21 minutes of that, I then Googled and delved into the rest of the Star Trek fan productions that are out there. Nothing held my interest for more than a few minutes. Most of it's really ridiculous. The budgets are horrible.

The acting is horrible, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The stories are really bad. The biggest budget, best produced one out there, I guess, would have to be Star Trek Continues, which has been going for a little bit. They're basically making new episodes of the original series, which means – New?

Yeah, which is not really a good – I mean, that stuff is charming as it was from the originals in the 60s, but you don't want to see new ones of it. They're matching costume design. It's the same cast, so they have new actors playing Kirk, Spock, et cetera.

They've matched the tech level on everything. They're basically matching the sounds, which I'm not sure how they're quite getting away with because all that stuff is under copyright as well. I can't – Yeah, no. Yeah, let's just cut it down. No. Yeah, I can't handle it. The plots are weak just like the ones that were done in the 60s, but it was okay when they did it then.

It's just – now it just seems silly. But I'll give a tip of the hat to Grant Imahara of Mythbusters fame. Mythbusters is making its third appearance in our podcast now. He plays Sulu. Not very well. He's not a great actor, but it's kind of funny to see him do that. Okay. Well, I'll skip that one, but I'll check out Axanar.

Yeah, check out Axanar. It was good. Are you kidding me? Keeping with a bit of the audio science I was dropping earlier, the Are You Kidding Me of the Week, if humans were capable of hearing bass frequencies lower than 20 hertz, we would be able to hear our own muscles moving.

I think that's badass. That's gross. That is so gross. Hey, man. We're nothing but a bag of meat. We are. We are. So, yeah, we've got a link in our show notes about this that goes straight to the government site for science education, science. And basically, it's actually even possible in under correct laboratory circumstances, you can hear your own muscles move, which means I want to go do this immediately.

Oh, that'd be cool just to do it once. I know. So when some muscles move, they can emit a sound in frequencies up to 20 hertz, but the usual hearing range for humans is from 20 hertz to 20 kilohertz, which usually is just too high of a frequency to hear the muscles move. But some people in a laboratory can hear sounds as low as 12 hertz, making it possible to hear their own muscles move.

I don't think this would work for me because of all the rock music stuff I've been doing. I'm sure I have some degree of hearing damage, but that would be amazing. I would love to do that. Yeah, I've got a massive degree of hearing damage. I'm deaf as a post. So thank you, punk rock. This would be cool, though.

And it kind of makes me think about, like, what's the hearing range of animals? Is that why animals can hear us coming? Oh, yeah. You know, because they can hear our muscles moving and go through the forest and they get spooked and run. I'm sure. I'm sure that's very possible. Yeah.

Cool stuff. Yeah, this is a really good one. Thanks, man. No problem. Closing shout outs. So we ran a little long this week with Jordan, but it was fantastic. He's an awesome guest. I'm glad he came on. So my new segment is going to have to wait till next week.

We've come up with a name, though, and it's Knowing is Half the Battle. G.I. Joe. Hey, if we can't steal from, you know, Harry Potter, we'll steal from G.I. Joe because nobody's around to enforce that shit. I don't know. They've got a bit of a franchise going on right now with the movies, don't they? Oh, that's true. Geez, Paramount might be calling.

But they don't use that. And I think that was PSA stuff that they did back in the day when you had to do that sort of stuff. Well, my stuff is a PSA as well, so it will show up next week. So thanks again, Jordan, for coming on. That was awesome. Yeah, it was a good segment.

I liked it. Jordan's a great guy. I don't really have any shout outs this week. It's a shout out to my family for being around. It's fun to hang out with them. It's because you've been watching too much baseball. It's rotting your brain. That's true. That baseball. Okay, well then, I guess I'll see you next week.

See you next week, man. Music for this podcast is provided by Among Us. Check out the link in the show notes, which is coming soon. We are hosted by Libsyn. And I gave them a little grief this week for being the ugliest website that I have to use.

But they are fantastic at what they do, which is host our podcast. If you do want to start a podcast, not saying that you will after listening to this episode, go to Libsyn.com and use the coupon code GOG while signing up and receive two months up to two months free.

And you can keep up with us at GrumpyOldGeeks.com, on Facebook at Facebook.com slash GrumpyOldGeeks, on Twitter we're at Twitter.com slash GOGpodcast, or simply email us at podcast at GrumpyOldGeeks.com. Show notes for this episode can be found at GrumpyOldGeeks.com slash 70.

Yo. Okay, last one to kill a bad guy buys the beer. We're driving to Florida. We're driving to Florida.

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